"Have mercy on me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness: ...
Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Against You, You only, have I sinned, and done this evil in Your sight". Psalm 51:1-4

David committed fornication, and even taking another man's wife. He didn't seem to think he needed to forgive himself.
But with a heavy heart, he cries out for God's forgiveness.

I think you answered that question perfectly.

I would disagree with you. The Scripture seems clear that our bodies are intrinsically part of us. They are not a mere shell. This is especially evident in 1 Corinthians 15 where the resurrection of the body is referred to (i.e., "For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality"). If the soul was only who we are, there would be no need for our bodies to be restored. For some unexplained reason, God designed us so that our bodies are a very important part of who we are. So important, in fact, that we will take these bodies, in a glorified form, to heaven with us for eternity.

As to sinning against oneself. I think you missed the mark in your answer, with all due respect. First, you simply dismissed the clear statement "sins against himself." If this is not what it appears, then it should be otherwise explained exegetically, not through short comments. Secondly, there are many sins which are referred to biblically that are against people. Yes, they are ultimately against God and God alone, but they are against God alone because they are defiling his work. And just as we can sin against other bodies, we can also sin against our own body, as 1 Cor. 6:18 states. While we are certainly not answerable to ourselves (but to God), we can and do defile ourselves often, and in this sense, we sin against ourselves before God. So I would urge you to study this passage more deeply in connection with other specific Scriptures, allowing this particular passage to mean what it says.

Seth
whatum.com
Theological Satire

I think you're right on with the not forgiving yourself. To my knowledge, "forgive" does not appear in the Bible in a reflexive (middle voice) sense of forgiving one's self. But I also wouldn't want anybody to misunderstand you that the body is a throw away appendage to the soul. Which I know you don't mean. In 1 Cor 6:13-20 Paul is actually arguing against sexual promiscuity on the basis of the eternal value of the body. But I don't thing Paul, in 1 Cor 6:18, is eliciting self-forgiveness. All that to say, I think your point is proven better in the definition and use of the word "forgiveness" rather than in the definition and use of the word "body" or "self".

I said, “Your body is simply the vessel that you live in during this life.”

Seth, you are correct to say that is not quite right. “… during this life” is not right, our bodies are eternal. I don’t pretend to understand how that works, but it’s true. However, I stand by my statement that your body is not you, and does not even belong to you. Therefore, a sin against your body is not a sin against yourself. You say I have “simply dismissed the clear statement ‘sins against himself,’” but that statement does not appear in these verses. The statement is “sins against his own body.”

Joe, yes, you’re probably on to something there. And I think there is a related point of logic to be made. Forgiveness involves an exchange between persons. Just as I can’t rob myself or give myself a gift, I can’t forgive myself. -1 + 1 = 0.

Over eleven years of prison ministry, this issue has been the most difficult one to deal with. Countless discussions with prisoners have gone something like this:

Prisoner: I just can't forgive myself.
Jeff: You're right. That's because you can't. Plus, you don't have to.
P: But I have to.
J: OK. Are you a Christian? (We then review whether the man is in fact a Christian. If he is, then we continue in this manner) Do you believe God has the power to forgive sins?
P: Yes.
J: Do you believe God has the authority to forgive sins?
P: Yes.
J: Have you asked for forgiveness for your sins?
P: Yes.
J: Do you believe God has the power and authority to forgive your sins?
P: Yes.
J: Do you believe He has forgiven your sins?
P: Yes.
J: Do you really believe that?
P: Yes.
J: God has forgiven your sins?
P: Yes.
J: Completely?
P: Yes.
J: Totally?
P: Yes.
J: So your sins are forgiven?
P: Yes.
J: Do you think God wants you to forget what you did?
P: No, He probably wants me to remember what I did.
J: Right. Don't dwell on it, but remember what you did and remember how God feels about our sins.
P: Right.
J: So Scripture doesn't tell you to do anything more for your forgiveness?
P: I don't think so.
J: It doesn't. Not that I can find. So where does the Bible say that another act of forgiveness has to occur after God has forgiven you?
P: I don't know.
J: It doesn't. So why do you think you have to forgive yourself?
P: I just do.

And it could go on forever if we'd let it.

A separate act of forgiveness that needs to occur after Divine forgiveness sure seems to say that the cross was not sufficient and that man is sovereign in that forgiveness is not complete until man forgives himself.

Probably half the counseling I have participated in over the years concerns this issue. Those who are covinced they have to forgive themselves tend to remain in bondage because they are trying to do something they can't do and are not biblically commanded to do. I have even encountered clergy who tell prisoners they need to list their sins on a piece of paper and a) forgive themselves for those sins and b) actually forgive the sins themselves, which opens up a whole 'nother can of worms.

Thanks.

Thanks, Jeff. That's the point, isn't it? Christ's atonement and God's forgiveness are entirely sufficient. What more can we add?

I don't know about this. Of course, only Jesus has the power to truly cleanse us from sin. But we're also called to forgive - thus releasing the sinner from a perceived debt.

Think about it: If Mary sins and prays for forgiveness, she's certainly made right by God. But if I harbor resentment toward her, I also am called to forgive her facilitate reconciliation. My forgiveness doesn't justify her, but it allows me to accept Mary and heals our relationship. This is necessary for both of us to move on.

I believe it's possible to need self-forgiveness. Not because I've harmed myself, but because I've harmed someone else and can't release myself from that debt. The same principle applies; I need to accept myself and be healed - in order to move on.

The idea that self-forgiveness is necessary as self-help therapy is exactly the point I refuted in my original post on this subject.